“Let’s throw in a new scene. Let’s try it this way; let’s try it that way.”
"That’s an interesting question." Beetz began. "I think that Arthur’s Sophie is what he needs and what he wants. He’s placing that identity on Sophie because in their first encounter, Sophie simply acknowledges his existence. Throughout a big portion of the film, he’s trying to find his existence; he’s even questioning himself, “Am I even really here?” Sophie is a person outside of his immediate circle of his mom and his work. Having anybody outside of that just even say, “Here, we’re an equal. This sucks for the both of us, doesn’t it?” is such a validating experience for him, especially coming from a woman, as he doesn’t have an opportunity to have any kind of romantic endeavors just due to his state. I think it means so much to him that he overemphasizes what it meant. The woman he has in his mind is, of course, different from the woman that she is. Realistically, I don’t think it would work between them."She was then asked if Beetz and director Todd Phillips talked about "rewarding the second viewing since the reveal would now be in the viewer’s mind?"
"We didn’t talk specifically about that," Beetz explained. "I think what’s interesting about Sophie is that she’s changed a lot from her original iteration in the script. As I was talking about at Sundance, we were finding that character as we were also finding Arthur. Joaquin and Todd were so playful in figuring it out and trying new things. Because they shot so quickly, we were able to fit more in and say, “Let’s throw in a new scene. Let’s try it this way; let’s try it that way.” So, to find her in this iteration being partially a fantasy, we didn’t really talk much about the second viewing, but I feel like she’s a fruition of all these different versions we tested out and put the hats on of, before landing on this. I have my interpretation of it all, but I don’t know if I necessarily want to publicly share it. What makes it more interesting is dissecting your own version of it. But, no, I wouldn’t say we specifically, or overtly, talked about any Easter eggs to watch out for."
Lastly, Beetz was asked if she remembers "the circ*mstances in which you found out that Sophie’s role would mostly be a fantasy?"
"Yes, it was a development as we were doing it," Beets answered. "I think we had shot some stuff, and then there were a couple of times where Todd called me and said, “We might shift it in this way.” It was sort of this slow shift, actually. So, I wouldn’t say that it was necessarily from one moment to the next where we were like, “There’s a fantasy element.” But, I think that the entire film is all through Arthur’s point of view, almost the entire thing, so, to an extent, you can question the interpretation of anything in this film. You can question Arthur’s relationship with his mother — and what that was really like or not really like — and then what they tell him in the insane asylum about her. That’s also up for interpretation. Is that the truth of her relationship with him when he was a child, or was it fabricated? I think the movie just really shifted into something where it’s all coming from his brain. In the end, isn’t it all up for questioning? What is reality or what isn’t reality as he questions his own reality and his own existence in the world? So, Sophie just started inserting into his brain rather than necessarily being a whole physical character outside in the story. I think everything transitioned into Arthur’s POV more."While one question may have been discussed in regards to Sophie, another one of the many questions fans may have after watching the film posits whether or not Arthur Fleck killed Sophie when he broke into her apartment.
While many of those questions most likely will not be answered, Phillips did address the fan theory about Arthur Fleck's ties to Batman.
For more on Joker, be sure to check out our review and a full explainer on the ending to the latest story featuring the Clown Prince of Crime.
Cover image courtesy of Rich Fury/Getty Images.Have a tip for us? Want to discuss a possible story? Please send an email to newstips@ign.com.Adam Bankhurst is a news writer for IGN who can't stop thinking about Joker. You can follow him on Twitter @AdamBankhurst and on Twitch.
